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Conversation Is the Only Way Forward

 


There is nothing more dangerous than an ideological echo chamber. 

In Reclaiming Conversation, Sherry Turkle urges readers to "talk with people whom you don't agree."

This is, of course, easier said than done. 

What if, for instance, the person with whom you are conversing is a holocaust-denier or, at least, a holocaust-skeptic? Should said person even be entertained?

A few weeks ago, former UFC fighter and far-right political provocateur, Jake Shields, sat down with X-user and pro-Israel advocate, Adam King, who goes by the pseudonym, Awesome Jew, online.  

Shields is, in many ways, a rebarbative figure. 

He is obsessed with, what has historically been referred to as, the Jewish Question, or, the JQ. That is, more or less, the rather myopic and derivative view that Jews run the world. This is nothing new: an old and boring form of bigotry. 

While some discern anti-Zionism and antisemitism, Shields doesn't bother. 

Here's Shields playing Ye's "Heil Hitler" in front of Israelis in a hotel lobby. "Fuck these Israelis,"  Shields says in his raspy voice, "they're fucking everywhere." 

To rehash every dimwitted, Jew-hating X post from Jake Shields would be akin to emptying the ocean with a thimble, as his feed is replete with the typical Leo Frank-type tropes. 

This said, I was shocked to see that Shields had accepted a debate challenge from Awesome Jew, a right-wing Zionist. 

You can watch the nearly-three hour debate here. 

To be clear, I am no fan of Awesome Jew, either. Many of his posts are far from thoughtful. But his knowledge of Israel and the conflict in the region writ large was clearly no match for Shields, a neophyte far out of his depth. 

Content aside, though, the exchange was surprisingly civil.  

In fact, it was less of a debate and more of friendly back-and-forth, with plenty of laughter and tongue and cheek one-liners. 

While you can frame this as a showdown between a holocaust-skeptic and a right-wing Zionist, you can just as easily see it as two stripped-down humans seeing each other as equals, instead of enemies. 

To be sure, there are some folks in the ever-growing world of nasty conspiracy theories whom it would be unwise to engage: Stew Peters and Lucas Gage are just a few examples. They don't just espouse racism and antisemitism, they engage in violent rhetoric. Here is Peters calling for a "Final Solution" on the Jewish people. 

Shields, however, to his credit, does not advocate for violence during his debate with King (a low bar, I know).

The point: conversation, not censorship, is the best way to combat extremism, both on the political Right and Left. 

Jake Shields and Adam King (Awesome Jew) shake hands.

To be sure, not everyone has the stomach to engage with such divisive personalities, and that's totally understandable. But someone has to do it. 

I'm reminded of Daryl Davis, a black man who has, through the power of conversation, de-radicalized members of the KKK. Davis, a remarkably affable guy with no motive other than cognitive empathy, has done more to combat extremism than anyone else. His approach and temperament ought to be studied. 

Daryl Davis with KKK member.

As polarized as we are in America today, I remain optimistic about our future. Through dialectic, we can depolarize, deradicalize, and come together once again. 

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